Thanks to Paweł from Polandian for his comments which I have used to update this blog post.
One of the biggest shocks about living in Poland for the average foreigner has got to be the bureaucracy. In fact if I have to list 3 downers about living here they would be:
- Unbelievable amount of bureaucracy to do anything in day to day life (register a car, buy a house, get a mobile phone, open a bank account, do anything at the post office…)
- Lack of indian and chinese take-aways.
- Did I mention the bureaucracy?
Unfortunately if you decide to live here (or already are) you will have to resign yourself to the fact that that is just the way it is and take it on the chin. The Poles don’t like it either and allegedly are slowly making things better. In fact because the procedures for doing things are in the process of change that can often add to the confusion – very often you are given out of date information or told different things by people or offices.
Anyway the first thing you will need to do is something called registration (zameldowanie). In what seems to me like an unreasonable breach of civil liberties you are legally required to be registered to an address to live here. If you aren’t registered then effectively you are just a tourist in Poland and not living here.
Many expats live in Poland for a long time and don’t bother to register – I didn’t until I had been here for at least 6 months. I have been told that it is legally compulsory but I don’t see how the authorities have any way to check how long you’ve been here or whether they even care that much about it.
So why register at all? Simply because at some point you might want to work here or buy a car or rent a flat and if you aren’t registered then you won’t be able to.
[UPDATE - I have been assured that you don't need to be registered to rent or buy property or to work locally. You don't need to be registered to by a car but you do if you want to register it to your name in Poland]
There are two types of registration – temporary (tymczasowy) or permanent (na stałe). As foreigners we aren’t currently allowed to register permanently. I know we are supposed to all be in the EU now, but it doesn’t feel that way.
[UPDATE - don't listen to the voices! Apparently if you have a karta pobytu then you can indeed register permanently according to the council in gdynia]
You can register temporarily for a maximum period of 3 months. That means every 3 months you will have to re-register. I have been told that I can register for up to 5 years but to do that I have to go to Kraków and frankly I can’t be bothered at the moment with the journey.
To register or re-register you will need to:
- personally go during office hours (usually 8am – 4pm Mon-Fri) to the local town hall (urząd gmina) and find the office where they do registrations (zameldowanie).
- take your passport
- take with you the landlord or owner of the address at which you need to register – they need to sign that they agree for you to live there
- take with you someone who speaks Polish if neither of you do. Don’t expect anyone to speak English, but be suprised if they do.
Don’t ask what happens if you work during office hours, are ill in hospital or elderly. The concept of dealing with these matters by post or internet is about as remote as me flying into space with a london oyster card.
Also don’t ask what happens if you don’t have anyone to sign you on to their address. If you are going to be renting a flat then this will be part of the procedure (and this also gives the landlord the power to evict you very easily by revoking your registration).
[UPDATE - an authorative source tells me that you don't necessarily need your landlord or property owner with you in person - if you have written entitlement to the property than that should suffice. In my experience that didn't work at my urząd miasta, but the next time I go to re-register I will try and do it with just my legal documents and will be ready to argue!]
When you do your registration they will ask you lots of apparently random questions such as what your parent’s names are. I don’t know why. Maybe if you’re naughty they will send a note home to them.
Finally expect a queue and to lose at least part of your day (if not all of it). That way if it only takes you an hour or so you will be pleasantly suprised rather than incredibly annoyed.
Let me know if you have anything to add, or what your experience of “zameldowanie” is like….
Tags: foreigners, poland, registration, zameldowanie
This is fun to read, unfortunately some things here aren’t true:)
Firstly, you don’t need registration to buy/rent a flat, buy a car or, if you are a foreigner, for work. Nor for a bank account.
For Polish people registration is needed mostly for ID cards, as you need to be registered to have one. And ID card is a basic document here. Secondly, you vote and pay taxes where you are registered (unless you make other arrangements), and use other services. Also: you can’t be evicted from a property to which you are registered to. Therefore some landlords might not want to register you, as then it could be difficult to get rid of you.
PLUS: foreigners do can register permanently. If you were told otherwise, you were misinformed.
http://www.gdynia.pl/bip/sprawy/do/zalatwienia/info/4333_29358.html
And you don’t need to bring your landlord to the office unless you have some written title to the property you want to register yourself to (as registration gives you some rights). So you can take your rental contract with you. From your landlord, city council, or building society, or employer.
(Mind you, your landlord should include their income from rent in their Personal Income tax statement. Some landlords don’t want to pay taxes, and don’t want to register lodgers officially)
Zameldowanie is a communist relic (aiming at controlling strictly who lives where and works where – as then everyone was obliged to work) and there are plans to abolish it altogether in recent future.
A foreigner might need their registration for using their (state) medical insurance, or taking benefits etc. or when engaging in some more complicated legal situations. In most cases you won’t need it and I wouldn’t bother registering.
It is well possible to get a job being a foreigner and not being registered. Yet it would demand some legal thinking from the side of your employer, who is likely to be lazy and make you register and deal with you more or less like with any other employee.
Pawel from Polandian
PS. More good news: if you don’t register you are lawfully required to pay a “tourist tax” (opłata miejscowa nicknamed klimatyczne) for each day of your visit :)
Basically unless you stay in a hotel (which charges this tax automatically) city council has no way to know you’re there and need to pay it:) So don’t worry:)
Pawel
Thanks a lot for your comments Paweł – I have updated the post based on that and credited you at the top.
Thanks.
Ben
No problem:) Someone has to give information, when public offices fail to do it;))
Warsaw City Council site seems to give clearer info than Gdynia http://www.wom.warszawa.pl/index_karta.php?adres=250&kat=10
And here are some instructions on what to do itf you don’t feel like re-registering every 3 months and would like to get the ‘potwierdzenie pobytu’ (confirmation of residence) for your permanent registration (oh my god, it sounds sou bureaucratic)
http://www.uw.gda.pl/biparch/index1291.html?pid=2099
I said some things criticising the registration, I guess I should say what’s the official justification for it still being out there. It is said that registration helps public administration perform its duties for the public. It is the basic record for many purposes – and this is the address state institutions use for communicating with citizens. Court orders/decisions are sent there, communications regarding your national defence duties etc.
Oh, and the thing that some of Brits should remember – in larger cities, especially Warsaw they don’t register in Urząd Miasta (City Council, which exists there too) but in Urząd Dzielnicy (Dictrict Council).
Pawel
Hello,
I have a problem with my registration, maybe someone could help me: I’m living with my girlfriend and the flat is rented on her name.
The landlord don’t want to register me on the house (neither want to register my girlfriend).
I tried to found another house, to put the contract in my name so that I can make the registration, however the prices are high or when we like one house we aren’t picked (maybe we stink:).
What can I do in this case? My process of permanent registration is on hold because I dont have the temporary one.
I’m from Portugal.
Thanks in advance,
Jorge
Hi,
I also have a problem – I read that you don’t really need to be registered sometimes??! I worked for 1 semester in Krakow and my boss just took an estimated amount off my wage for taxes, but I didn’t have a NIP number. Now that I’m leaving, he’s asking me for the NIP number and I’m just wondering if I’d get into trouble if I didn’t get it. I’m not registered here either and am planning on moving somewhere else soon, too, so it seems a bit pointless really. Any clues what’d happen if I left it? Any advice would be appreciated :)
Ciara
Well it’s true that nothing bad seems to happen to those people that don’t bother to register, but if you don’t register then you start to get problems occur such as your situation.
If you are going to leave the country then I imagine you don’t really care if you leave a bit of a mess behind with your tax in Poland. It would probably be a headache for your employer though because I don’t see how he was legally employing you without a NIP number.
Also, if you didn’t earn much or were only here for part of the year then you may well be entitled to get some of your tax back. Whether this is worth the hassle or not depends on your situation.
But I suspect your employer isn’t even paying your tax anyway as you have no NIP number, no registration and I will guess no contract…
Thanks! At the end of each month, my boss took an estimated amount of money from my wage, which was towards the tax. I was told when I was leaving, to please get a NIP number and a lot of other stuff, which made no sense to me, since I was leaving anyway, and they’d taken money off me anyway (bloody bureaucracy). Now, the company has sent me a PIT-11 and I don’t have a clue what to do with this form, either (and how they could’ve filled it out without my NIP number, I don’t know – the space where my NIP number was to go, was left blank)! I did have a type of contract, called a ‘Umowa O Dzielo’…. It’s so difficult to find any sort of information on all this paperwork! Even my Polish acquaintances have absolutely no idea….
Employers are required to send employees this form by the end of February to show the employee his/her earnings for the previous year. The employee then has until the end of April to file his/her tax return.
I would advise you to see an accountant. My one charges 40 PLN to do this PIT return. Your situation might be more complicated but either way it shouldn’t cost a fortune and will save you a lot of headache.
You won’t find any info on this as you say – partly because the rules change each year and anything to do with tax is complicated. But there are loads of accountants in each town so I advice you to take what documents you have, take someone that speaks Polish (if you don’t) and track one down.
Thank you very much! I’ll do that! It’s all such a pain! Thanks again :)
Don t worry, your parents names are not to be punished, it is just the way that the polish administration is making the differences between its citizens with the same name and same birthdate and place. I know that in France it is according to your christian additional names that they process.
Well, it has been one and half year i am in Poland, i am studying and i m not registered yet! (coming from Fance by the way, so EU)
Tips: if you need to open a bank account, the bank WBK just asks for your passport and 20 minutes of your time!
but right now i will be obliged to register cause i want to take my driving licence here. anyway i would need it to find a work!
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Hi , im going to live with my girlfriend in poland and her family which will register me on their property,. my girlfriend will come to the office in krakow for me to register, i know to bring my passport but, is anything else relevent on this matter? . Then shortly im starting my own small business which i want to register on my own name first and im from scotland. What is the best solution for me my friend?
Just your passport will be fine. Regarding business I suggest that if you don’t speak Polish that you go and find a good English speaking accountant that can help you.
Hi,
Me again – finally got around to starting the process of zameldowanie – my landlord is very happy to fill out the form, but unfortunately he has lost the 2 (!!) that i brought him. He told me that I can find the form online to print off – however, as my Polish is limited, I haven’t been able to find it (the temporary one for 3 months). I can’t get to the Urzad place very easily as I have now started my new job (which is why I need the zameldowanie to get the NIP number….) and it starts and ends before/after the Urzad’s office hours… Do you know where I could find the form online?? I’ve found the forms that you need to register yourself here after 3 months – but not the 3 month one…
Any help would be appreciated!
PS: Thank you so much for posting such a blog!! It’s really a huuuuuge help! :)