Thanks to Paweł from Polandian for his comments which I have used to update this blog post.
One of the biggest shocks about living in Poland for the average foreigner has got to be the bureaucracy. In fact if I have to list 3 downers about living here they would be:
- Unbelievable amount of bureaucracy to do anything in day to day life (register a car, buy a house, get a mobile phone, open a bank account, do anything at the post office…)
- Lack of indian and chinese take-aways.
- Did I mention the bureaucracy?
Unfortunately if you decide to live here (or already are) you will have to resign yourself to the fact that that is just the way it is and take it on the chin. The Poles don’t like it either and allegedly are slowly making things better. In fact because the procedures for doing things are in the process of change that can often add to the confusion – very often you are given out of date information or told different things by people or offices.
Anyway the first thing you will need to do is something called registration (zameldowanie). In what seems to me like an unreasonable breach of civil liberties you are legally required to be registered to an address to live here. If you aren’t registered then effectively you are just a tourist in Poland and not living here.
Many expats live in Poland for a long time and don’t bother to register – I didn’t until I had been here for at least 6 months. I have been told that it is legally compulsory but I don’t see how the authorities have any way to check how long you’ve been here or whether they even care that much about it.
So why register at all? Simply because at some point you might want to work here or buy a car or rent a flat and if you aren’t registered then you won’t be able to.
[UPDATE - I have been assured that you don't need to be registered to rent or buy property or to work locally. You don't need to be registered to by a car but you do if you want to register it to your name in Poland]
There are two types of registration – temporary (tymczasowy) or permanent (na stałe). As foreigners we aren’t currently allowed to register permanently. I know we are supposed to all be in the EU now, but it doesn’t feel that way.
[UPDATE - don't listen to the voices! Apparently if you have a karta pobytu then you can indeed register permanently according to the council in gdynia]
You can register temporarily for a maximum period of 3 months. That means every 3 months you will have to re-register. I have been told that I can register for up to 5 years but to do that I have to go to Kraków and frankly I can’t be bothered at the moment with the journey.
To register or re-register you will need to:
- personally go during office hours (usually 8am – 4pm Mon-Fri) to the local town hall (urząd gmina) and find the office where they do registrations (zameldowanie).
- take your passport
- take with you the landlord or owner of the address at which you need to register – they need to sign that they agree for you to live there
- take with you someone who speaks Polish if neither of you do. Don’t expect anyone to speak English, but be suprised if they do.
Don’t ask what happens if you work during office hours, are ill in hospital or elderly. The concept of dealing with these matters by post or internet is about as remote as me flying into space with a london oyster card.
Also don’t ask what happens if you don’t have anyone to sign you on to their address. If you are going to be renting a flat then this will be part of the procedure (and this also gives the landlord the power to evict you very easily by revoking your registration).
[UPDATE - an authorative source tells me that you don't necessarily need your landlord or property owner with you in person - if you have written entitlement to the property than that should suffice. In my experience that didn't work at my urząd miasta, but the next time I go to re-register I will try and do it with just my legal documents and will be ready to argue!]
When you do your registration they will ask you lots of apparently random questions such as what your parent’s names are. I don’t know why. Maybe if you’re naughty they will send a note home to them.
Finally expect a queue and to lose at least part of your day (if not all of it). That way if it only takes you an hour or so you will be pleasantly suprised rather than incredibly annoyed.
Let me know if you have anything to add, or what your experience of “zameldowanie” is like….
Tags: foreigners, poland, registration, zameldowanie
This is fun to read, unfortunately some things here aren’t true:)
Firstly, you don’t need registration to buy/rent a flat, buy a car or, if you are a foreigner, for work. Nor for a bank account.
For Polish people registration is needed mostly for ID cards, as you need to be registered to have one. And ID card is a basic document here. Secondly, you vote and pay taxes where you are registered (unless you make other arrangements), and use other services. Also: you can’t be evicted from a property to which you are registered to. Therefore some landlords might not want to register you, as then it could be difficult to get rid of you.
PLUS: foreigners do can register permanently. If you were told otherwise, you were misinformed.
http://www.gdynia.pl/bip/sprawy/do/zalatwienia/info/4333_29358.html
And you don’t need to bring your landlord to the office unless you have some written title to the property you want to register yourself to (as registration gives you some rights). So you can take your rental contract with you. From your landlord, city council, or building society, or employer.
(Mind you, your landlord should include their income from rent in their Personal Income tax statement. Some landlords don’t want to pay taxes, and don’t want to register lodgers officially)
Zameldowanie is a communist relic (aiming at controlling strictly who lives where and works where – as then everyone was obliged to work) and there are plans to abolish it altogether in recent future.
A foreigner might need their registration for using their (state) medical insurance, or taking benefits etc. or when engaging in some more complicated legal situations. In most cases you won’t need it and I wouldn’t bother registering.
It is well possible to get a job being a foreigner and not being registered. Yet it would demand some legal thinking from the side of your employer, who is likely to be lazy and make you register and deal with you more or less like with any other employee.
Pawel from Polandian
PS. More good news: if you don’t register you are lawfully required to pay a “tourist tax” (opłata miejscowa nicknamed klimatyczne) for each day of your visit :)
Basically unless you stay in a hotel (which charges this tax automatically) city council has no way to know you’re there and need to pay it:) So don’t worry:)
Pawel
Thanks a lot for your comments Paweł – I have updated the post based on that and credited you at the top.
Thanks.
Ben
No problem:) Someone has to give information, when public offices fail to do it;))
Warsaw City Council site seems to give clearer info than Gdynia http://www.wom.warszawa.pl/index_karta.php?adres=250&kat=10
And here are some instructions on what to do itf you don’t feel like re-registering every 3 months and would like to get the ‘potwierdzenie pobytu’ (confirmation of residence) for your permanent registration (oh my god, it sounds sou bureaucratic)
http://www.uw.gda.pl/biparch/index1291.html?pid=2099
I said some things criticising the registration, I guess I should say what’s the official justification for it still being out there. It is said that registration helps public administration perform its duties for the public. It is the basic record for many purposes – and this is the address state institutions use for communicating with citizens. Court orders/decisions are sent there, communications regarding your national defence duties etc.
Oh, and the thing that some of Brits should remember – in larger cities, especially Warsaw they don’t register in Urząd Miasta (City Council, which exists there too) but in Urząd Dzielnicy (Dictrict Council).
Pawel
Hello,
I have a problem with my registration, maybe someone could help me: I’m living with my girlfriend and the flat is rented on her name.
The landlord don’t want to register me on the house (neither want to register my girlfriend).
I tried to found another house, to put the contract in my name so that I can make the registration, however the prices are high or when we like one house we aren’t picked (maybe we stink:).
What can I do in this case? My process of permanent registration is on hold because I dont have the temporary one.
I’m from Portugal.
Thanks in advance,
Jorge
Hi,
I also have a problem – I read that you don’t really need to be registered sometimes??! I worked for 1 semester in Krakow and my boss just took an estimated amount off my wage for taxes, but I didn’t have a NIP number. Now that I’m leaving, he’s asking me for the NIP number and I’m just wondering if I’d get into trouble if I didn’t get it. I’m not registered here either and am planning on moving somewhere else soon, too, so it seems a bit pointless really. Any clues what’d happen if I left it? Any advice would be appreciated :)
Ciara
Well it’s true that nothing bad seems to happen to those people that don’t bother to register, but if you don’t register then you start to get problems occur such as your situation.
If you are going to leave the country then I imagine you don’t really care if you leave a bit of a mess behind with your tax in Poland. It would probably be a headache for your employer though because I don’t see how he was legally employing you without a NIP number.
Also, if you didn’t earn much or were only here for part of the year then you may well be entitled to get some of your tax back. Whether this is worth the hassle or not depends on your situation.
But I suspect your employer isn’t even paying your tax anyway as you have no NIP number, no registration and I will guess no contract…
Thanks! At the end of each month, my boss took an estimated amount of money from my wage, which was towards the tax. I was told when I was leaving, to please get a NIP number and a lot of other stuff, which made no sense to me, since I was leaving anyway, and they’d taken money off me anyway (bloody bureaucracy). Now, the company has sent me a PIT-11 and I don’t have a clue what to do with this form, either (and how they could’ve filled it out without my NIP number, I don’t know – the space where my NIP number was to go, was left blank)! I did have a type of contract, called a ‘Umowa O Dzielo’…. It’s so difficult to find any sort of information on all this paperwork! Even my Polish acquaintances have absolutely no idea….
Employers are required to send employees this form by the end of February to show the employee his/her earnings for the previous year. The employee then has until the end of April to file his/her tax return.
I would advise you to see an accountant. My one charges 40 PLN to do this PIT return. Your situation might be more complicated but either way it shouldn’t cost a fortune and will save you a lot of headache.
You won’t find any info on this as you say – partly because the rules change each year and anything to do with tax is complicated. But there are loads of accountants in each town so I advice you to take what documents you have, take someone that speaks Polish (if you don’t) and track one down.
Thank you very much! I’ll do that! It’s all such a pain! Thanks again :)
Don t worry, your parents names are not to be punished, it is just the way that the polish administration is making the differences between its citizens with the same name and same birthdate and place. I know that in France it is according to your christian additional names that they process.
Well, it has been one and half year i am in Poland, i am studying and i m not registered yet! (coming from Fance by the way, so EU)
Tips: if you need to open a bank account, the bank WBK just asks for your passport and 20 minutes of your time!
but right now i will be obliged to register cause i want to take my driving licence here. anyway i would need it to find a work!
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Hi , im going to live with my girlfriend in poland and her family which will register me on their property,. my girlfriend will come to the office in krakow for me to register, i know to bring my passport but, is anything else relevent on this matter? . Then shortly im starting my own small business which i want to register on my own name first and im from scotland. What is the best solution for me my friend?
Just your passport will be fine. Regarding business I suggest that if you don’t speak Polish that you go and find a good English speaking accountant that can help you.
Hi,
Me again – finally got around to starting the process of zameldowanie – my landlord is very happy to fill out the form, but unfortunately he has lost the 2 (!!) that i brought him. He told me that I can find the form online to print off – however, as my Polish is limited, I haven’t been able to find it (the temporary one for 3 months). I can’t get to the Urzad place very easily as I have now started my new job (which is why I need the zameldowanie to get the NIP number….) and it starts and ends before/after the Urzad’s office hours… Do you know where I could find the form online?? I’ve found the forms that you need to register yourself here after 3 months – but not the 3 month one…
Any help would be appreciated!
PS: Thank you so much for posting such a blog!! It’s really a huuuuuge help! :)
Hey guys, this is my experience of legal affairs in Poland. I have also had problems with the retched zalmeldowania. I have got registered a few times and for me having a rental agreement for a flat worked but as you know it is hard getting somebody to agree is another thing, but you will probably have to pay a big deposit on the flat. My girlfriend agreed to register me at her flat, which she is buying not renting, so now I can work again for another year. I get zameldowania for a year at a time :)
I hear they are abolishing the Zameldownia, but when? is anyone’s guess. I got my NIP because I was registered as a Lmtd company, which was not too hard, ZUS is another thing and if you can find a boss who will pay your ZUS….. I think you need Zameldowania and karta pobyto to do everything else. In Poland you can earn 6000 pln or something tax free!! so if your boss has been taking tax, probably you would get a tax rebate, but all tax forms must be in by april!! the tax year in Poland is Jan to Jan. as they say in Poland ” Life is Brutal and full of traps ;)
Can i confess something? Having read all of this I am still not entirely clear what the procedure is for new arrivals wishing to register/be eligible for work. Makes me long for the HMRC website (never thought I would say that).
My Attempt at Getting Residence Card ( Karta Pobytu)
I came to Poland at the end of July, 2010 to live with my husband working here.
As a new foreigner, I attempted to get residence card first.
Here’s what I did and how long it took.
Most of things were done with the help of Polish agent.
Would you read the followings and answer the questions?
⇨⇨ 18.08.2010 Failed in Applying
The first thing I did was having photo taken. But I failed to apply because of the photos. It is important that photos show left side of face and left ear. Uwaga!!!! (Attention in Polish) I had to get my photo taken once again. It was a waste of time and money( 40 PLN x 2).
⇨⇨ 19.08.2010 Succeeded in Applying
I succeeded in applying. I submitted application form, rental agreement of my apartment in which I’m now living, and 4 color right photos etc.
■ Where: Katowice City Hall – ▪Śląski Urząd Wojewódzki
■ What I Submitted.
1. filled out application form (this form is in Polish, English and French)
2. 4 current ID photos
3. passport + 2 photocopies
4. family document + certified translation
5. certificate from appropriate tax office**( my husband & me)
6. permission to work or working visa ( my husband)
7. copy of contract to work /documents proving financial stability(my husband)
8. police inspection
9. proof of health insurance
10. rental agreement
11 carte blanche (to agent: my husband & me)
⇨⇨ 08.2010 Unexpected Visitors : Police Officers
I cannot remember the exact date when two police officers visited my house. They asked me a lot of questions like this: How long have you been here? How do you cover the living expense including apartment rental fee? Are you working in poland? Do you have a health insurance? etc, etc, etc.
⇨⇨ 14.10.2010 I Got Decision Letter.
Decision was made on the date of 8.october.
But it was a week later that my polish agent told me the fact that decision was made. Then he took my passport to pick up that letter on 14 October. Yes. I could get the decision letter in my hand on that day. As soon as I got it, I translated it into English with the help of Google. The first word was “DECYZIA” It means ” Decision” Followings are part of it. Original Polish version and translated English version.
Sender: Wojewoda Slaski (Governor of Slaski)
Date: Katowice 08/10. 2010r
o udzieleniu wnioskodawczyni zezwolenia na zamieszkanie na czas oznaczony na terytorium Rzeczypospolitej polskiej do 19.02. 2012r.
(to granta permit to an applicant for temporary residence in the Republic of Polish to 19.02. 2012)
Uzasadnienie / Wydaniezezwolenia na zamieszkanie na czas oznaczony jest celowe, bowiem zachodzi okoliczność uzasadniajaca zamieszkanie wnioskodawczyni na terytorium rzeczypospolitej polskiej przez okres dłuzszy niz 3 miesiące ze względu na pobyt z ( Justification / authorization of temporary residence is deliberate, because the circumstance justifying the applicant’s residence on Polish territory for more than three months due to stay with her husband )
⇨⇨ 26.10.2010 Delay and Questions
More than two weeks have passed since decision letter was issued. I was too impatient to wait for plastic residence card. So, I sent a text message to polish agent asking when to get the plastic residence card. I got a reply like this: “Tomorrow I’ll get new apartment rental contract and submit it to the authority concerned. (City Hall- Wojewoda Slaski). And city hall needs about 2 weeks to prepare the card. ”
I couldn’t understand. Decision was made about 20 days ago. Why and Who on earth asked another document proving my residence, New apartment contract? Nonsense !!!!
When deciding to permit my residence, the most important thing might be : I’m living in poland with a husband who has already got a residence card. Isn’t that enough? The final date when I can be in poland is the same with that of my husband. And I’m living in the same apartment. Furthermore, the expiring date of my apartment contract is January 2011. That means about 5 months are left from the date of my application and more than 3 months are left from the date when decision was made .
Now I want to ask questions to the person who might be concerned with.
Q 1: What is needed in the context of residence duration in a specific place?
How many months should be left from the expiring date on the contract paper?
More than 6 months? Oh my!!! Show me the evidence like directives appropriate.
Q 2:Am I expected to leave the territory of Poland and await decision abroad?
OOOhuhuhu!!!! Read the followings and check it.
” If application has been filed less than 45 days before the lapse of visa stay period or period for which previous residence permit for a specified time was issued and proceedings are not completed before expiry of your residence permit, you are requested to leave the territory of Poland and await decision abroad. In case you do not leave the territory of Poland, Voivode will refuse the issue of a residence permit for specified period of time. ”
When I asked that question to polish agent, he said, ” It’s just a theory!!!!”
⇨⇨ 28.10.2010 New Rental Agreement
Polish agent said, ” I need your passport to submit new apartment rental contract . And they need about 2 weeks to prepare the card. If you don’t submit the new rental contract, they’ll give just 3 month permission ( till the expiring date of the present rental contract) Then you will be bothered to do something to extend it.“
I said, “I don’t think so. That doesn’t make a difference. My expiring date of my residence permit will not be changed. Never!”
⇨⇨ 16.11.2010 I Got the Card
I went the city hall with the agent and signed when the very residence card was handed in.
then I asked the woman concerbed with one qestion : If I did sumit just the old rental contrat, expiring date is different from the one which I have now? The answer was, “No”.
I am happy to finalise the long proceedings. Still have small questions.
Q 3 : What is a way of notification?
According to the information on the internet, all the letters (notifications, decisions,) are delivered by registered to the address indicated by you or to your legal agent if you have appointed one. But polish agent said he has to call himself. Right? Isn’t it very inefficient? I can’t still believe it.
Q 4 : What was the reasons of delay?
Hi All,
Don’t bother with zameldowanie if you don’t need it badly…
I have lived for 3 years already in Poland, and never really had the need to register. I have studied a master degree, I rent a flat, I work for a year, have bank account, health and pension funds, TAX ID and I am even taking driving licence classes without regsitration or PESEL number.
You might need to get zameldowanie if you want to get a PESEL number (which allows you to take credits or buy on several rates) or if you want to officially register as a citizen living abroad at your consulate (I am French, just registered on the list of French living abroad – ease up administrative procedures and allows me to vote) …
I have been told that the Polish parliament has passed an act stating that zameldoanie shoudl disappear, but was never enforced…
nobody will check you, don’t worry!
PS: a Danish friend also told me that registration in Poland can avoid you to have late taxes to pay in your home country – this way your home country’s tax office knows that you are officially living abroad and don’t have anything to do with them!
I have Polish confirmation and now want to get a Polish passport. I am told I have to get a PESEL first. Where can I get this in Warsaw? I have tried several places and am sent on a wild goose chase to places all over the town and no-one seems to know where I should go.
Any help out there?
hello everybody, I am a student at Poznan University of economics..i presently bought a car and i will like to register it in my name..i heard i will need a zameldowanie to register my car…i had a zameldowanie while leaving in the student domitary but at present i am presently leaving in a flat i rented..my main question is(1) can i use the zameldowanie i had in the dorms to register my car in my name because i wont like to go through the stress of registering this new flat i rented, and secondly..what other document do i need to register the car in my name..I am from south Africa..I will appreciate any help..thanks in advance