I already blogged about my experiences with registering locally, well after growing tired of traipsing to the local council every 3 months I decided to bite the bullet and get my karta pobytu (card of stay). This allows me to register for a 5 year period.
It’s worth mentioning that apparently you can register permanently, but I haven’t looked into this too much and you need the card of stay first anyway. Quoting from the “instruction to the nationals of the European Union member states and their family members” leaflet that they gave me when I applied for my karta pobytu, it says “the Union citizen shall obtain right of permanent residence after five years of continuous residence within the territory of Republic of Poland”.
Also note that you can only get the karta pobytu having already been here for 3 months having already done the local registration as above.
The first problem in doing this is the difficulty in finding out exactly what you are supposed to do, what documents you need and where to go.
There’s a thread here about it on Polish forums where I asked if anyone had tried doing this in Krakow. Just to be sure though I called up the office in Kraków myself to check. They referred me to their portal at www.wrotamalopolski.pl where the forms and instructions are available for download. It took a bit of hunting down but here is the page for registration in małopolskie. Unfortunately the link entitled “wniosek do pobrania (ob. UE)” which in English is “form for download (EU citizens)” is the wrong form. That form is for a replacement card, not a new application. I had to do my application a second time and of course go and get photocopies there and then because of this.
If anyone has links for the right form or for other regions please post a comment.
Where to go
Oddzial do Spraw Cudzoziemców Wydziału Spraw Obywatelskich i Cudzoziemców Małopolskiego Urzędu Wojewódzkiego w Krakowie, ul. św. Sebastiana 9-11, I piętro, pokój 102
Here it is on google maps.
Basically that is the office for foreigners, room 102, 1st floor on Świetego Sebastiana street. It’s pretty near the Wawel behind the hotel Royal, so if you get lost head for the castle and ask. Also there is a photocopy place (ksero) in the same street near the kiosk. You might find yourself having to go there to get photocopies of whatever they decide to demand from you.
There’s also an office in Nowy Sącz if that’s nearer for you (ul. Jagiellońska 52).
What you need
- Forms. First fill out the 5 page form. As mentioned it is supposed to be downloadable from their website but my experience is different. You need 3 photocopies too. If you don’t have copies they’ll just send you out to get them. I should mention here that you even need to copy the blank sections that you are for them to fill in – I didn’t, and of course I was sent out to get photocopies. I did ask her what the point of photocopying empty pages was but she wasn’t having any of it.
- Passport with 1 photocopy of the page with your details on it.
- Proof that you have health insurance. This ones a bit tricker because it depends on whether you are working for a Polish company, are a student or still work for a UK company. I work for a UK company so just got the new European Health Insurance Card by filling out this form on the NHS website. Of course I needed 1 photocopy of it.
- Proof that you have financial means. This one is tricky because again it depends on whether you are a student, working locally, retired or whatever. Either they will ask for some crap such as a letter from a Polish bank confirming that you have a bank account, or they will ask for 1 photocopy of your credit card if you have one.
- Photocopy of your 3 month temporary registration.
Note that when you give them photocopies they will probably want to see the originals too, so bring them with you.
Because my wife is Polish they also asked me for our Polish marriage certificate. Because we got married in English we previously had to “announce” our marriage to the Polish authorities and they gave us a little yellow A5 document which seems to keep the officials happy. However I didn’t have this with me because when I rang I hadn’t been told this was necessary. Even if I had had it with me it would have been no good, because they said they wanted one less than 3 months old. We have been married 2 years and our Polish translation/certificate is already 1 year old.
Still following this?
So according to them I have to go all the way back to Opole (where we first lived when we came to Poland and where we announced our English wedding) to get another Polish certificate, to then bring to them in Kraków, even though I live nowhere near either place.
I pointed out to her politely that that was bollocks and I wasn’t going to, so she decided instead that photocopies of my credit cards would suffice, but that I should call up after 2 weeks to check it wasn’t going to cause a problem with my application.
MORAL OF THE STORY – I STRONGLY ADVISE YOU TO CALL UP AND ASK THEM EXACTLY WHAT YOU WILL NEED FIRST!
The Kraków office phone number is 012 392 1845.
What to do
Turn up. Queue. Get told that you have the wrong form or have filled it out wrong. Fill out the right form correctly. Go back to the photocopier place. Return to the office again. This time she decides that she wants photocopies of your credit card as you don’t have your Polish marriage certificate with you. Go back to the photocopier place. Return to the office again. Call after 2 weeks to check your application is OK. Wait for the Police to turn up at your door to ask you strange questions about your educational history, work experience and if you are a terrorist or some sort of nutter. Tell them “no”. Go back to the office again after 1 month to collect your certificate. Pay 1 złoty at the till first.
Springer’s Final Thought
This process has to be the biggest load of bureaucratical bollocks I have dealt with to date living in Poland. I really don’t see the point – if I am a terrorist why would I apply for a residence card to start with? If we’re all in the EU aren’t we free to live anywhere we want? What p*sses me off the most is that they ask you to bring photocopies with you – how primitive is that? What happens if you have made a mistake or have the wrong form? Would it not be more logical for them to check your forms and originals and then take whatever copies they want themselves?
Anyway that’s my rant over for now… please post your experiences of applying for the karta pobytu if you have any.
EDIT – I got a phone call on 13th May 2008 to say my karta pobytu was ready. I went back to the office in Krakow, paid 1 zloty and collected it. What an anticlimax – just a little bit of paper with a stamp :-(
Tags: karta pobytu, zameldowanie
Generally this experience was tolerable, however others were utter misery as you well know. Once I tried to get international travel insurance in Poland. All was fine until I told them I was Irish. This particular tick box on the insurance check listwas the equivalent of having a long term terminal illness and increased the premium by 300%. Eu membership my ar&%.
It must be a real challenge for a foreigner to cope with all that bureacruacy. Polish complain about it all the time as well but nothing changes. Anyway, if you’re lucky you
can come across a kind and helpful clerk – they do exist in Poland :) I wish you luck then.
I love your writing – laughed out loud at “the yellow piece of paper which seems to make officials happy”:)) Unfortunately it’s right:(
Anyway – I am Polish and coming back to my country with an American husband. I am looking forward to all the bureaucracy in Poland:(
Regards,
Katarzyna
Hey just saw the link to your blog over at Islands page… will enjoy reading your posts, even if not in Poland at the moment.
cheers
Hi I am Polish and come to UK 3 years ego. It is really fun to read about yours experience in my country ;P That is funny to read people with “mirrow” problem if you know what I mean. My english was zero when I come to yours country and belief me, my life in here is easier then in Poland. (Sorry for my english, still learning) I wish you luck in my country
Hello – really enjoying your blog, which I’ve just discovered! I’m English, living in Bochnia, Małopolska – I moved here in January this year, for much the same reasons as you.
Similar experiences with getting my karta pobytu. In my case it was complicated by the fact that I have a part-Polish surname, from my grandfather, who was Polish. The office in Kraków phoned after a couple of weeks to inform me that this could mean I am entitled to Polish citizenship, and that they needed to make some enquiries regarding this. But first I was summoned to an interview to discuss this…
Some weeks passed, and I was informed that as my grandfather had not relinquished his Polish citizenship, I was entitled to Polish citizenship. But (perversely) that this also meant that I could not be registered for a karta pobytu, as Polish citizens can’t have them.
To cut a very long story short, after many trips to and from the office, and much debate over this strange situation, in exchange for a karta pobytu, I signed a declaration that I would seek Polish citizenship…
The experience was at times hilarious, at times incredibly frustrating, but always 100% Polish…
Really enjoying your blog – drop me a mail if you ever fancy a trip to Bochnia!
Hi JCB
Can you message me your email? I don’t have any contact details for you.
I am in exactly the same situation as you – again Polish grandfather. I still don’t have my karta pobytu and it’s nearly 6 months since I applied (heard nothing since my interview).
Cheers.
Ben
Top blog!
I seem to have had a simpler life in Poland as I am single and childless and still don’t give a fuck!
Seriously though, it’s good you find time to help people. I learnt a lot, especially in the motoring section. I have, in fact, now stopped driving – I’m 52 and can no longer tolerate the national driving mentality. Being stuck behind another vehicle for more than three seconds seems, for most Polish male drivers, to imply sufference from impotence and/or small willy syndrome.
Mail me if you like. I’ve spent 14 years here and speak Polish with mistakes, but I know how to make ‘em smile, and that’s the main thing!
Take care,
Paul.
Sorry, I thought this would be moderated before it went on site. Oops! My apologies to the sensitive.
Paul.
Just a thought: although those hilarious moments you experienced there in Krakow are the truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth, don’t think it’s been easier for us, Poles, with your British red tape, nosir. Well, perhaps it’s changed (for better?), it’s been a long time since I queued in front of the Lunar House and then, Aliens’ Registration Office :)
Hi Marek. Thanks for the comment, but sorry I just don’t believe you :-) In the UK there is no zameldowanie, there is no karta pobytu etc.. etc.. Since the EU days all you need to do is go and get a National Insurance number which is probably the one and only annoying task Poles have to do…
Ben, get in touch if you want some “English” food – we came summer 2006 opolskie, shame we didn’t get in touch when you were here. Make own sausages, pies and pasties – all locals come for Asian food – we do Indian, Thai, Mexican as so on – all the stuff Brits miss – including fish and chips ! My pasties are famous here – inculdng indian cornish -my own recepie!
Ben, your problems with karta pobytu is strange as any EU citizen can claim a stay . We had problems but were told that once you register as foreigner with ties to Poland (marriage is favourite) you are eligeble to permanent stay – no longer only 5 years! It’s new EU rules that any member of EU can claim indifinite residency in other EU state – since 1.02.2008 – so there is no karta pobytu any more! We did that last March!
Hi Ashton
Yes let me know your contact details. I am getting hungry just at the thought of it!
Cheers.
Ben
Hi All,
Just arrived about 10 days ago and am going through all the paperwork now. I’ve so far heard contradictory comments about karta pobytu in this blog. Ashton says that no karta pobytu is needed anymore but he also says that we (EU citizens – im from Portugal by the way) can now claim indefinite residency. My girlfriend (Polish) pointed out that karta pobytu IS the equivalent of a residency certificate. So far we have had no major problems with registering (went to do the temporary 3 months zameldowanie today), although I did have to have the owner of the house with me.
I am a bit confused about 2 things though…
1. Somewhere above someone said we can only apply to karta pobytu after being in Poland for 3 months? I’ve checked the necessary paperwork and nothing seems to indicate that…
2. Do they actually go and talk to you at home? I hope they speak English!!! And is this the “interview” you mentioned or is there another “interview” when you go and apply? “Wait for the Police to turn up at your door to ask you strange questions about your educational history, work experience and if you are a terrorist or some sort of nutter”
Then again all those posts above are from a year ago, so I guess, from my experience (in Krakow btw) it kind of improved a bit. :)
1 suggestion of correction (according to my girlfriend):
a)that form that you mentioned seems to now go to the right document or anyway the link gets you a document that allows you to apply BOTH for a renewal OR for a new application
b)the address we have to go to is different for some reason… (we did call in advance though, so thanks for all the tips! I will be following your blog!)
Gratz on great fun (and educational) writting!
Helle Ricardo, welcome to Poland!
As far as I am aware a karta pobytu is still required. It used to be a proper plastic card with a photo, now it’s just a crappy piece of paper so sometimes when people say it’s not issued any more they are referring to the plastic card. I have heard that the entire zameldowanie system will be dropped in a few years which may well include the karta pobytu, but that hasn’t happened yet…
Yes karta pobytu = residency card which is for 5 years.
1. Yes, on the karta pobytu form it indicates that you can only apply having already been here for over 3 months. Once you’ve had your karta pobytu for 5 years you can then in turn apply for permanent residency.
2. Yes a local policeman will knock on your door one day and conduct an interview. No, unless your policeman happened to spend a couple of years on an Irish building site before joining the police then I severely doubt he will speak English. I also had to go to Krakow for another interview at the foreigners’ office but I think that was just because my case was more complicated than usual.
3.a) I believe they are the same form.
3.b) they moved address – were you told to go to ulica Przy Rondzie? That is the new office where everything is in once place. Before they had a number of different offices for different departments scattered across Krakow.
Cheers.
Ben
LOL, this should be fun with the policeman interview!:) the location of the office I am not sure about just yet, bt I will confirm it and let you know.
…and about point 1….once again, if I have to be here for 3 months and only then apply …does that not make me “illegal” resident? Because I just had to zameldowanie for 3 months, so do I wait for that to expire and THEN go with it to take a Karta pobytu?
Personally I don’t think it’s that important or that anyone really cares. I renewed my 3 month zameldowanie for another 3 months and then started my karta pobytu application. Whilst I was waiting I had to renew my zameldowanie again.
Ok, I have checked and yes, we were told to go to ulica Przy Rondzie. Thanks for all the useful info. I will try my best to get the karta pobytu asap and if I have to renew my zameldowanie for another 3 months than so be it….I have now surrendered to Polish beaurocracy anyway, as everything else seems to be going very well, I cant complain!:)
Best of Luck!
Mine seemed to go well, I am towed around by my Polish wife and all I seem to do is smile a lot at these places. It started with a trip to my local office in Mykanow were we had our civil marriage performed, I seem to be a bit of celebrity there as the first westerner to be married in this region. Then it was some visits to Częstochowa and then back to Mykanow and so on for a few days. We were doing some traffic office stuff with our cars (long story) and they ask for Karta Pobytu, we toddled across the road and there it was waiting for me, a rather unimpressive bit of paper after less than a week.
If anyone requires a list of toilet locations in Częstochowa government buildings I believe I have them all. I am pretty laid back about it all, this is how they do business, who am I to say what they or how they should do it.
I got to spend a couple of hours in a new building this week, toilet is down the corridor second door on the left at the end, Anyway the upshot of that is I am now a Polish farmer and co own 6 acres with the wife.
Hello Friends,
I read all comments… its kinda scary offices there..
I am from India working in Dubai now getting married to my polish girlfriend very soon. I was thinking of moving to Poland with her. But after this foolish burocracy i think i will have to face tough time.. Can anybody help me in getting to know the formalities if applicant is not EU citizen. To be very precise formalities for Indian People.
My email id is vj.sharma007@gmail.com
Regards
Vj
Great tips Ben! Do tips apply also for US citizens?? i have lived here in Krakow for almost 2 years now, applied for a zamalodwanie 2 months ago… but about to expire… I want to stay here longer and want to have a mobile phone contract. I recently started a business here, have a NIP, have a REGON but i need a PESEL which i dont have.
Cheers!
Joe
Sorry I don’t know about non-EU citizens as I have no experience in dealing with that. But with regards to a PESEL I would expect that to be the same – if you find out please let me know.
what a gold mine of information moved here with my girlfriend and our daughter 6 months ago only just got daughters pesel but the red tape here is so confusing my girlfriend her parents her uncle a goverment employee dident have a clue as how to register me my employer was no help as they took me on a self employed basis and just pay cash but thanks to finding this blog now i can drag the other half round the offices instead of her dragging me round the shops or should i just blag it and continue with cash in hand??
We are in the middle of a frustrating zameldowanie / karta pobytu experience, much like JCB above. Thanks for all the advice here, it may help us to ask the right questions. In the meantime, the link to the NHS European Health card has changed, one of these may be a better place to go.
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/EHIC/Pages/Introduction.aspx
http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/news/newsarchive/2009/howtogetthenewehic
I had heard somewhere that you can get zameldowanie only for 3 months, and would have to renew it after those said months. However, I went to the office and just put the start date and end date of my contract with my current flat and no questions were asked (and that is for 10 months!). So it is possible to do that, which makes things a bit easier. And for the zameldowanie, instead of taking the landlord, I managed to get a stamp from the Agency who rented the flat to me, which they also accepted.
The annoying thing about it all, like you said, is all the photocopying and running from one place to another! Just make sure you have copies of everything that you’ve been sent/given.
Not tried for the Karty Pobytu or the PESEL number yet….to be honest, I’ve just spent half of my day off at 3 offices (Immigration office, Urzad Miasto and Urzad Skarbowy) and will leave everything for a day when there is no snow and the mind is not exasperated!
PS: Out of the 3 offices, the Urzad Skarbowy was the fastest – took 5 mins! Handed the NIP-3 form in and the NIP number should arrive in the post soon!
Hi there,
I have a question for you, but before let me tell you the story.
I am Romanian as nationality. I did my Ph.D. in Italy where I met my Polish girlfriend who was doing her Ph.D. as well (4 years since we’ve got into that relationship). Well, everything beautiful in our lives until we decided to switch from academic to the private sector. I became a freelancer (I earn decently for Romania and Poland), but she got a stable job in Poland. And now our lives started to get complicated. As freelancer, I care less where I live, unless the stupid bureaucracy starts to come into play. On the other hand, I wouldn’t like to get married just because of bureaucracy and I and my girlfriend feel about marriage as not being appropriate in this moment (why rush it?).
And here comes my question:
What do I need in order to get temporary residence (more than the stupid 3 months every 6 months – as the law is permitting it now) to live with my girlfriend in Poland? Ricardo, are you eligible to apply for 5 years permit of stay just because you have Polish girlfriend? Ben, if you weren’t married with a Polish citizen, would you have been able to apply for the temporary residence? Ciara, I went to Urzand Skarbowy with my girlfriend and you can consider yourself lucky that you got for 10 months because here they haven’t given me for more than 3 months (perhaps you got a clerk who was not so competent – the law doesn’t permit what you described). According to the law, there is nothing which could stop me and those like me to apply for it, but nothing to allow me to get such a permit.
Thank you for your suggestions.
PS: For 3 or less months permit of stay, you can get it with just a valid rent contract in which the owner should put the registration number for the flat buying contract to prove the ownership and the dates of starting and ending the rent period (preferably, but not necessary, the flight ticket for your travel to Poland). No flat owner is required if you know enough Polish to tell the clerk what you need.
To be honest I don’t know – as an EU citizen I have the right to live in Poland regardless of whether I am married or not.