This morning I went to a branch of one of the biggest banks in Poland – PKO Bank Polski – to do what I thought would be a very simple task – namely withdraw 1500 złoty from my wife’s account on which I have permission to use.
How I was wrong! Here follows a rant. I hope it will make interesting reading. At the very least it should restore my blood pressure.
First I tried to use the cash point outside the bank (read ATM if you are American :-) ). Not suprisingly it said I couldn’t withdraw that because the daily limit is 1000 złoty. OK fair enough, time to head inside. Now normally when I go in to a bank or post office or similar establishment in Poland I like to calculate what I call my “service inefficiency index”. Basically this means calculating the ratio of staff sitting on their arse to those actually serving customers. Today I counted 6 windows with staff, of which only 1 was open despite a long queue of customers. Thus PKO this morning managed to achieve an impressively low index of 16.7% – even lower than the post office yesterday.
Fine – this meant I would have to stand in line for a while. Now I am not a particularly patient person to start with, which is why I try and do most of my banking online when possible, and I could feel my blood pressure slowly rising as I contemplated what could possibly be more important than dealing with the customers whose money is in their bank and ultimately paying their wages…
Finally I got to the front of the queue. This is when I like to do my second test of Polish customer service – does the clerk have the common courtesy to acknowledge my presence at the window while they finish playing with their bits of paper in an “I’m very busy and important” manner? Or do they manage to go as far and say “dzień dobry”?
The woman today managed a half-smile. OK great start. Our conversation went something like this:
Me – hello I want to withdraw some money from my wife’s account. This is her card.
Her – umm, do you have the account number
Me – no, I just have her bank card. Is that not enough?
Her – are you on her account?
Me – yes
Her – dowód please
Me – I haven’t got one, I’m British. Here’s my driving licence.
Her – aah. OK Pesel then
Me – I don’t have a Pesel either.
Her – in which case I don’t know how to look up her account
Me – so you are saying that despite having her PKO Bank Polski debit card in front of you, you are unable to find her account? Is this not PKO Bank Polski? I am a little surprised.
[Now I should point out at this stage that unlike in the UK where you can deal with any branch of your bank without a problem, the branches of PKO Bank Polski aren't so closely interwoven. Like in the UK, the bank where you open your account is your home branch, but unlike in the UK that means that some things (such as telling them you have moved address) can only be done in your home branch personally and physically, and not elsewhere.
So it took her a lot of effort and consulting with colleagues and playing with the computer to actually find my wife's account number. Of course there was a queue of people behind me before we started, now the queue is to the door (yes, still only one till open).]
Her – [looking at my driving licence] so what is this?
Me – [surprised, given that there are pictures of cars and lorries on the back] Err, it’s a driving licence
Her – do you have your passport?
Me – not with me, why? Can’t you just use my driving licence?
[By this stage I have been in the bank over half an hour (including queuing time), there are 11 people behind me and I am starting to lose my patience.]
Her – sorry I can’t give you any money on just your driving licence. Why don’t you use the bankomat outside?
[Is it not obvious that I would not queue up like a twat if I could have used the bankomat? I managed to restrain myself from saying that...]
Me – Because I want 1500 złoty. That’s a valid ID document in the UK and I thought we were in the EU here
Her – sorry, passport only
Me – in which case can you tell me your surname?
Her – why?
Me – because when I make a complaint later I want to know whom I dealt with
Her – but I checked everything and we can’t pay out on a driving licence
Me – fine, but I want your surname anyway
Her – [writes down her surname]
Me – [leave bank empty handed and incredibly p*ssed off]
I don’t understand why my driving licence is not good enough for PKO Bank Polski when it is good enough for the Urząd Miasta and Urząd Transportu i Kommunikacji. It is good enough for me where we have our other accounts at Bank BGŻ.
PKO Bank Polski is clearly not geared up to deal with foreigners. I have access to my wife’s bank account but as a foreigner not working in Poland I was not allowed to be a shared owner of it with her, which is another stupid rule in my opinion (again no problems with Bank BGŻ).
I have written to PKO Bank Polski and asked them to explain their position with regards to foreigners. I have also mentioned this article on my blog and invited them to respond. If/when I get a response from them I will be sure to post it here.
As mentioned, I opened a bank account with my wife without any problems at all at Bank BGŻ. I even have a credit card with them, so I know that not all banks are as bad as PKO Bank Polski.
I would very much like to hear about your experiences with polish banks as a foreigner – please leave a comment!
PKO’s advertising slogan is “PKO Bank Polski – blisko ciebie”. Blisko ciebie? Blisko dupy in my opinion.
Tags: banks, PKO Bank Polski
Really funny – been there, done that ;)
Try Pekao SA – they even handle sterling!
Firstly.
She was right. Maybe a driving licence is a proof of identity in the UK, but most probably not in the EU and surely not in Poland. It is just merely a driving licence. If you are foreign you should have yr passport with you or yr national ID card which you don’t have in the UK so maybe that’s why you use DL. And it’s the same in the UK, sometimes they don’t want yr national ID card, only passport is valid.
Secondly.
There was money withdrawal involved so it’s rather a common sense to have had a valid and more important document with you such as a passport.
Thirdly.
PKO PB is THE WORST BANK I’ve ever had a ‘pleasure’ to deal with. It’s even worse than HSBC in the UK (having in mind that bank sector and banking in the UK is a nightmare). Change the bank, no kidding, it still retains some communism feel
and approach and is maybe good for pensioners. BPH might be one to switch to.
Thanks for the comment Piotr but I disagree with you that a driving licence is not sufficient – like I said in my post, how comes it is good enough at other places in Poland (e.g. when I registered my motorbike here) and at other banks (e.g. Bank BGŻ)?
In the UK we don’t have national ID cards, and I am not going to carry my passport with my day-to-day.
Cheers.
Ben
Hi Ben
This for me typifies many “foreignors” experiences in dealing, not only with Banks, but any large institution in Poland. I don’t get why a passport is needed everywhere you go either. Maybe Ireland and England should issue identity cards like the Poles have, which easily subsitute for a recognised ID. You never see them carrying their passport around but expect us to.
I recommend Mbank (www.mbank.pl). Everything can be done online and you don’t have to deal with lazy employees as they have hardly any offices. :D Perfect!
Ben,
Thank for all the info in your blog. My wife (Polish) and I (Brit) are moving to Poland in July. I’ve found out more useful information about Poland in 30 mins reading your blog than in countless hours of searching the internet and asking my wife (A true woman, who doesn’t know anything about ‘man’ stuff and doesn’t want to know either – quite a refreshing attitude).
I have lived in Germany and in Italy and find the prospect of Poland, and more importantly Polish, rather unnerving. I’ve seen your comments about learning the language, so there’s hope for me .
Your reaction to over bureaucratic systems and unhelpful service is very similar to mine. Perhaps it’s better that I don’t speak Polish very well as I quickly get irritated by pointless rules. I just have to remind myself that it’s their country and they can run it anyway they like. (and that’s how it should be really). I am confident that this aspect of Polish life will improve over the coming years; commercialisation brings a realisation that there is a need for improved customer service – otherwise people just go else where.
Overall I’m looking forward to the experience and will read your blog with great interest from now on.
Regards
Chris
Hi Chris
Thanks for the message – sounds like we have similar personalities! Regarding the language sure there’s hope – it’s scary at first it’s true, but it just means a bit more effort at the start and then you’ll be up and running before you know it.
Where are you planning to move to?
Ben
Ben,
We are moving to a small village just outside Piaseczno, about 30 mins south of Warsaw. We’ll be there next week to finalise buying a house. Another disadvantage of not speaking the language has been that my poor wife has sorted everything herself. My lack of Polish has meant that she has organised the whole thing, and you know how complicated it can be!
I have to say that the Polish system of only having one lawyer makes absolute sense and I can’t understand why, in the UK, we always have two. I expect that a Brit lawyer would say that he is representing you, but in Poland it seems that one lawyer can ensure both parties’ safety and make sure that the law is followed – much better.
I am determined to crack the language so will be looking for a school in the area once we settle down. I saw your link to the University in the USA and I’ll give that a go too.
One item for anyone in the area; I’m in a band at present and it’s going to break my heart to leave. I’m thinking about putting a band together once in Poland and would love to hear from any expats and locals who would like to jam / gig or just have a laugh.
Chris
Wish you luck with everything. Not sure I agreee regarding the lawyer thing – they aren’t really lawyers and don’t look after you at all – they are just public notaries who record the transaction and get paid way too much for the privilege. You have reminded me – I must blog about when we bought our house….
Shame you will be so far away from me down in the south of Poland – would love to jam now and then!
Hi Ben,
I’m on the opposite side – a Pole living in Ireland (Republic of) and all I can tell you is this: this is not her fault, it’s yours. it’s called a “culture shock” and everyone has to go through it. And so have I.
Considering the banking: don’t know how it works in the Uk, it’s definitely not too good in Poland, but it’s a total nightmare in Ireland. You can’t transfer money from one bank to another and so on…
Driving License is not a valid ID in Poland – just as it is in Ireland and UK. Also, just to let you know, when I am abroad (ex. UK and RoI) I am REQUIRED to carry my passport with me at all times.
And I know how hard it is to get used to a new country and new customs but take it easy and good luck. Poland is not the most foreigners friendly country in the world, but it’s not the worst either :)
And by the way – PKO branch in my hometown is the best bank, but this varies from town to town. Just find the one that suits you.
Yennefer, Hi I am Irish.
This has really confused me. Since when has Irish law stipulated that foreigners must carry their passport with them at all times?
Now I haven’t lived there for 2 years so perhaps things have changed without me hearing about it????
actually she said excluding RoI and UK. But are the Irish banks really that bad?
Ah read Ex for example instead of except. Apologies! Irish banks are like all banks> A pack of bastards.
Hi Ben,
Yes, I said excluding :) as it was a requirement in all other countries I used to visit / live in.
As for the Irish banks: they have changed a lot in the past two years BUT still you get people walking into the branch, asking for a withdrawal and saying “I have no ID. I know it’s me” … my boss did it once. And he got the money as he was persuasive enough…
Yes, you can’t transfer money between different banks and it takes 5 working days to clear the cheque. And in some banks you’ll get only ATM card (that you can’t use in shops etc…) for 6 MONTHS!
I could go on for ages… but I just get used to it. I neither can or will change it so it’s not worth me going on about the same thing over and over.
And -WOW- they introduced internet banking 18 months ago. Woohooo, one step for a man… ;)
I have to agree 100% with piotr on this one, as it is quite arrogant to assume that our driving licences are proof of anything outside of the UK, as is the case in many other countries that I lived in.
And really if you have lived here for eight years as I have, it is common sense to take your passport with you when dealing with Government, banks and such like.
When in Rome!!!
Hi Ukpolska, thanks for your comment. I understand what you and Piotr are saying, but I don’t understand why it is arrogant to assume my driving licence should be valid there if it is valid at the urząd transportu and at Bank BGŻ? Surely it should either be valid everywhere or be valid nowhere?
And as I have said a couple of times, I don’t and am not going to carry around my passport day-to-day. I stupidly thought popping in to the bank would be a 5 minute job as it is with Bank BGŻ. If I wanted to do anything more than get some cash out of course I would have taken my passport.
Hi Guys,
I had a great laugh reading all this. I am a Pole living in UK and I can tell you why you have to carry your passport with you all the times :)
Basically Passport verifies your identity and so does Polish ID card. Because UK and Ireland doesn’t have an ID card the only form of identification is your passport. Driving license is not a valid form of ID in respect of the law. The reason why driving licence was sufficient enough in Urzad Komunikacji is because Urzad Komunikacji is the authority dealing with Drivers IDs etc like DVLA in UK or DMV in the US. On the other side almost every time I want to withdraw money in a bank in London I am often ask to for 2 forms for ID, so I wouldn’t say its something unusual.
Hey:)
This is so typical:)) It’s hard to do things even if you’re Polish.
But is it better on British Isles?
I went through hell of opening account in Jersey, where I worked briefly.
I had a passport, I had a letter of recommendation (!!?) from my employer and it wasn’t enough. I didn’t get through the bank reception desk – in Barcalys, HSBC and NatWest (only these provide services for ordinary people there).
I ended up having my wages delivered to friend’s account. Yes.
/Pawel/
lol
that’s my favorite part of your blog !
It’s totally wicked !! :))
i use WBK who are tied in with Allied Irish Bank, not a bad outfit and seems to have many English speaking staff (thank god) when i opened account although same i don’t work in Poland they take a copy of your signature but for all withdrawals you have to show passport or in my case i have a temporary ‘resident’ card as i arrived pre EU time. you can actually get loans etc from WBK but beware they seem to up the interest on a monthly basis.
also i use WBK internet banking (correction my wife does) seems to work well. excellent website, could have done with this years ago.
Tell me about PKO.. My girlfriend used to have an account there. When she wanted to withdraw all her money to put it in mBank, we had to wait for 1,5 hour before it was our turn (when we came in at least 25 people where in front of us, when we got out the queue was standing almost outside). No idea what all those employees were doing there, but it’s impossible that they were all working.. Heard stories about getting in the bank at 16:30 to withdraw some cash, waiting there till 17 and simply being told to go home and come back next morning as business hours had passed.. this with 15 people in front of you and 25 behind you.. This never happened to me in any bank before. But OK, everything is transferred to mBank now and I only hear good stuff about this bank, so think i will open my first Polish account there too.
After 5 visits to Poland in a year, I decided it would be a good idea to open a bank account there just to have easy access to money when I needed it. I was recommended BZ WBK and found it quick and easy to open an instant access saving account. The bank staff were helpful and the big bonus is that the account currently pays 5.5% interest (difficult to match in the UK). I can access the account on-line and the site is even in English!!
Btw, can anyone tell me the cheapest way to get money transfered to Poland. So far I have taken sterling in cash and changed it in a kantor, fine for a few hundred quid but not too safe for larger amounts. Surely there must be a cheap ‘electronic’ way???
thanks for all your wise and timely info
i am a yachtbuilder abt to start over again in Pl
I am from NZ although I do have UK PASSPORT
I would like to hire you to build a website, and would be grateful if you can email me,
Abt to go to UK to by a car, rhd, I need a tow vehicle and to find a lhd in Eu is difficult and expensive
rgds
Stu
Hi – its been interesting reading about the various issues about banking in Poland, Having been related to Poland for 10 years or so (wife being Polish) we opened our 1st account with the PKO Bank. Or perhaps I should say my wife did and I was only permitted to be a signature to the account.
We operated like this for several years as it did not really matter to much at that time. However when we open our company (Sp zoo) we used another bank called “Bank Millennium” for our busines requirments and also usin secure online banking offered to corporate businesses enabled us to use the account even from the UK.
After a similar story about trying to draw money out of the account, and also not carrying my passport in fear of loosing it “AGAIN” I tried to use my id in the form my DL – but to no avail. (UK bring on the ID card please)
As the PKO Bank would not assist me in either removing or depositing money to my wife accounts (even though my name is associated to those accounts) I felt it was time tomove to a Bank that was more friendly to the needs of persons so married to Polish nationals and as it happened were able to speak or find a member of staff who would be able to speak to me in English. This had had to be a must for me.
So we looked at our business Bank “Bank Millennium” yes they speak English, (not just for us English people, but so they can also try to talk and make business with other countries nationals) an online site – friendly in English.
So we closed our PKOBank accounts and said good bye to them,
We openned our 1st private account in my name, then another in My wifes name and now we have accounts in several currencies.
For me, having dealings with UK Banks I have to say that the Polish Banking system of “BANK MILLENNIUM” is perhaps the best, most productive I have ever had. No longer do I need a passport, just my account number and some proof of who I am (DL will do) (this is so I do not encurr a credit charge to the account when depositing money)
Their online banking both commercially and for private banking is 1st class. When things go wrong – you can phone the helpline in Warsaw – and even speak to some one in English.
Now dont get me wrong – I dont expect any Polish bank to have so many English speaking people in the staff. And I could not even think of a 1 UK bank that comes to mind to which has a Polish speaking member of staff (I am sure they do by now!) But for me – I would advise anyone thinking of openning a Bank Account to most certainly look at “BANK MILLENNIUM”
Just out of interest – as my status in Poland chaged late last year, and having taking all the right documents to the bank to prove my residence status as permanent (albiet 5 years) they changed all the banking records even phoning their head office for advice and how to do this- end result was completed in 45 mins.
Want to open a business account – go to Bank Millennium
Want to open a private account – go to Bank Millennium
This bank is young and had a bright future it wants to move with the times and knows it has demanding customers – it self learns – its good bank.
Hope this add some interesting reading on what I think about some aspects of Polish Banking.
Ian
Hi Again – This is for Dave,
If you open a bank account in National Westminster Bank – they have an arrangement whereby they can transfer funds for free to a bank account in Poland. Not sure what bank it needs to be in Poland but will try to find out and let you know
regards
Ian
Hi Ian,
Have not been on the site for ages so didn’t see your reply. Thanks for the info; I will check this out with Nat West when I get back to the UK. Regards.
Hi like the blogs opened bank account with BANK PEKAO SA in jaslo must be the record 15 min plus bank card and statements in english posted to england every 4 weeks in sterling?? loking forward to moving onto my farm if only to clean the bikes and send the wife out to work vince
Dear BiP
I am moving to Poland form USA in December, and I shudder just reading that… nice to know there are active expats there.
Hello,
I’m from Belgium and run a small company in KRakow.
It’s true that generally the bank-service in Poland sucks.
Here-under my experience last week at a Millenium outlet, where i’m already 2 years a good client…
After I had deposited 25.000 euro (in cash) onto my company account and had signed the receipt, I asked to exchange and transfer 5.000 euro onto my pln-account.
However a bizarre reaction followed: all of a sudden the lady refused my signature on the new receipt that I signed for this transaction. And this after there wasn’t any problem with my signature on the first receipt.
Both signatures are the same, although I guess no one can guarantee it’s without differences on a microscopic level…
The situation then escalated into an absurd discussion.
Another person (said to be ‘the manager’) joined but she also persisted and kept on refusing my signature, instead of resolving the matter.
Finally even after me putting 2-3 more signatures they refused to complete the transaction all together and further on ignored entirely my presence in the building.
I then had no choice but to leave
My passport was at their disposition,
I have been several times in this outlet, so the involved staff knows me personally
In this moment I don’t know what there is to do, but my business is seriously blocked by it,
PKO bank well fortunatly I have a bank account with the ING which is not too bad. However my experience with the PKO was ludicrous.
Ok I buy an apartment the developer wants cash paid to his account at the PKO. So order the zlots and withdraw them from my bank ING. Enlist a friend as security and we go round the corner to the PKO. One window open, around 40 people in the queue so wait nearly an hour. Get to the window, pass the cash across with the account details of the builder.
First dowód, the teller then proceeds to count the piles of cash by hand,it was over 100K. Then rummages under the counter and produces a rather tatty excercise book looks in it then gets out a calculator and then asks me for an additional 1400 zloty. When I queried this she said, it was standard procedure when paying in cash they charged a fee and that was what I now owed.
So I said I had changed my mind and could I have my money back, fine but then she had to count it all again before giving it back. I must have been there at least half an hour during which time the line of clients was well out into the street. I was fuming a bit but whilst walking back to the car noticed thast there was a bigger branch of the PKO close by so decided to give it another go. Same scenario massive line and just one window but decided to bluff it out and went to customer services. In my best pidgin Polish I requested a private room and teller as I had a substantial deposit to make at their bank. One minute later was in a private office, a machine was wheeled in which counted the cash and within five minutes everything was completed. The bank official thought I was making some joke I think about my experience at the other branch.
Service in Poland is as we all know very variable
I see there are a few posts regarding currency exchange. I had been registered and using Hifx and was happy until last year and would strongly caution users of their service.
I inherited some money. I executed various insructions which went through OK but the final was was for several thousand pounds to be sent here into zloty. It just dissappeared. I spent three weeks being given the run around, no one at HiFx would take any responsibility or have the courtesy to return my calls or e-mails. Theses exchange services are unregulated and to my mind downright dangerous unless you can tell me otherwise. The banks are a rip off but at least you have some security. My money eventualy turned up nearly a month later but minus a raft of mysterious charges which left me several hundred pounds out of pocket. HiFx then closed my account and refused to respond to my calls or e-mails, be warned