Most of you are busy doing Christmas things and enjoying time off work. Time off for me means I end up spending more time doing geekish things such as posting on this blog. So here is my next post for you language geeks about a few strange things about the Polish language. Read them for your own interest (in case you are as much of a geek as me) or impress your friends with them (in case your friends are geeks instead). If you win a pub quiz based on any of this info feel free to send me a cheque :-)
1. Polish doesn’t have a word for “years”. Now a Polish person will argue with you that they do, namely “lata” and that “rok” is the singular (i.e. “year”). But lata is in fact the plural form of “summer” – “lato”. Therefore if you want to say “3 years ago” the Polish is “3 lata temu”, and if you want to say “3 summers ago” the Polish is also “3 lata temu”. As you can see there is no distinction.
2. Polish doesn’t have a word for “sleet”. It strikes me as very odd given that Polish winters can be very cold and snowy that they don’t have a word for “sleet”. Instead they call it either “rain with snow” or “snow with rain”. So when the TV weather presenter says “there will be rain, sleet and snow tonight” she has to use the awkward looking phrase “będzie deszcz, deszcz z śniegiem i śnieg wieczorem”.
3. Polish doesn’t really have a word for “outdoors”. There are two ways for saying outdoors in Polish and both are a bit odd. One way (as spoken in southern Poland) is to use the expression “on the field”. For example “I am outside” would be “Jestem na polu – I am on the field”. That sounds odd both to foreigners and to some Poles. The other way is to use the word “dwór”. Using this construction a Pole would say “Jestem na dworze” which literally means “I am on the court(yard)” because dwór literally means a court or manor. In my opinion very odd.
4. Numbers 1 to 4 are adjectives. 5 and up aren’t. Have you noticed that something wierd happens to Polish sentences when you have 5 or more of something? This is because numbers below 5 are treated like regular adjectives. For example in the sentence “są dwie ładne kobiety – there are two beautiful women” the word ‘two’ behaves like the word ‘beautiful’ in that it tells us something about the women. Polish language students will notice that the number has declined also. Now compare that with the following: “jest pieć ładnych kobiet – there are five beautiful women”. You can see that either the word endings or words themselves have changed. ‘Five’ doesn’t behaves like an adjective. The grammatical reason for this is because the numbers 5 and above put ‘beautiful women’ into the genitive case. Literally you are now saying “there is 5 of women”. The logical reason for this? Who knows. It is probably related to the fact that anything to do with quantities of something in Polish requires the genitive case. But why switch at 5? Why not 4 or 10? I guess you have to switch somewhere. In any csae, very odd…
5. Instrumental Identity Statements. OK this one is a bit technical so I apologise in advance. Plus this one is more of a peculiarity than just outright wierd so a bit of an anti-climax for the last one I know. Still nevermind, I’ll get on with it. In statements of identity such as “I am a Pilot” or “Eric is a fireman” the Polish language uses the instrumental case. Language students will know that the instrumental case is usually used to indicate the means by which something is done. This leads to the following strange scenario – if somebody offers you an alcoholic drink but you don’t want one because you are driving you say “Jestem samochodem” which literally means “I am by car”. The sentence is constructed of “Jestem – I am” and the instrumental form of car – samochodem. But as I already said, this is how identity statements are constructed. Therefore “Jestem samochodem” could also mean “I am a car”. So is your guest tee-total when driving or having an identity crisis?
Tags: polish language oddities
As for the outdoors, you can use “na zewnatrz” (outside) or “poza domem” (outside home)
Ah, the joys of learning a new language. And hearing about it from an English-speaker’s point of view…
My advice – go on speaking Polish for a few more years and these oddities will stop being so odd.
:)
1. “lata” is plural of “rok” (year) – yes, it’s originated from “Summers” but nobody thinks of it this way. Sometimes people even say “wiosny” (Springs) – this in fact sounds awkward and old-fashioned.
3. Yes, “pole” (field) is used in near Kraków and “dwór” in rest of Poland. Either sounds perfectly fine for people using it and awkward for people from the other area.
4. Numbers are not adjectives (unless you meant “pierwszy”, “drugi” etc., which can be used as such). This funny grammar comes from two plural forms (one means “a few”, the other “a lot”). See the following illustration:
1 – singular
2~4 – plural (“a few”)
5~21 – plural (“a lot”)
22~24 – plural (“a few”) (that’s a surprise, isn’t it?)
25~31 – plural (“a lot”)
…
95~101 – plural (“a lot”)
102~104 – plural (“a few”)
105~121 – plural (“a lot”)
… and so on. Sorry, it wasn’t me who invented this. ;-)
5. “Jestem samochodem” (I’m a car) means exactly this. But, then, people normally are not too fussy about grammar when drinking alcohol. If you want to be 100% correct say “przyjechałem samochodem” (I came by car).
Hi Andrzej. Glad you are enjoying the blog and thanks for all the comments.
4. Not sure I see how you arrive at “a few” for your translations of 2~4 though. Also most text books treat numbers 1~4 as adjectives because they decline exactly like other adjectives [totally visible for 1 (jeden, jedno, jedna), partially visible with 2 (dwaj, dwie, dwa), not visible for 3 or 4].
5. Yes przyjechałem would be clearer, but both forms are grammatically correct as “jestem samochodem” also can be translated as “I am by car”.
Hi Ben,
It’s one of most interesting blogs I’ve read. I used to live in a country where few Polish go so I am curious to see how people manage to stay in Poland in similar circumstances.
4. OK, now I understand what you meant by adjective. I prefer not to think of numbers this way – as you see there are enough exceptions to make this similarity deceptive. OTOH, ordinal numbers (pierwszy, drugi, …) are adjectives.
The whole system is quite complex, eg. the example (number 2) you gave is actually an exception (or another plural form). As you probably know, in plural form nouns, adjectives and some numbers have only two declinations:
male (human only) – trzech, czterech, pięciu, …
others – trzy, cztery, pięć, …
Only numbers ending with “2″ (and not “12″) have all three forms:
male (human only) – dwaj (only for 2) or dwóch (2, 22, 32, …)
female – dwie
neutral and male (non human) – dwa
:-)
5. It isn’t grammatically correct but is commonly used in informal language, so I guess it’s a matter of time when it will become a part of it. It is similar to English “I am by car” but that’s more an indication of its origin (?) than correctness.
Hi Andrzej
4. Yes numbers seem to be one of the most difficult parts of Polish. What you are referring to about males is that in the virile form Polish uses the genitive. Although I notice that sometimes there is a choice of form just to make it even harder for foreigeners to learn – e.g. dwaj studenci, dwóch studentów, dwoje studenci :-)
5. Well I will agree to disagree with you then because both “I am by car” and “Jestem samochodem” look like valid grammar to me. They are using the instrumental case – therefore an indication of means of transport
Great blog – I re-start my Polish lessons next week and it’s posts like this that scare the bejesus out of me! So far I’ve tried translating Polish directly, but of course in some (most) cases you can’t do this.
As I have not studied language in detail before, I’m still getting to grips with terms like “instrumental case” (naive, I know).
Love the weather forecast though – seems to make forecasting unnecessarily complicated doesn’t it?
I apologize in advance for my english hehe
regarding point 3. – somebody has already said that outdoors=na zewnątrz or poza domem. Let’s say sth more about why Poles from the southern part of Poland are often using “na polu” and those from the north “na dworze”
1.pole=field
2.dwór=manor house
3.In the old times (about XIV, XV,XVI,XVII cen.) southern Poland was known for its rich gentry and aristocracy. Rich meant that they possesed great ranges of fields, plenty of villages and even towns. The richest of them even had their private armies. So when they went outside they saw their own “pola” everywhere around palace or manor. They went “na pole”. Nothing strange considering their situation.
4.On the contrary the northern parts of country were habitated by quite poor gentry. They had smaller manors, very often indistinguishable from houses belonged to rich peasants. In this situation they were saying “na dwór” to remark their social position as a members of polish gentry, simply they wanted to nobilitate themselves using the word manor=dwór even if they just were going outside or outdoors. They couldn’t say “pole” because saying about fields which they do not have, was below their dignity.
Lata is plural of rok.
But my grandmother says “roki” (as in “chłopiec ma pięć roków” – the boy is five years old). This in incorrect in standard Polish, however.
BTW, I find phrase “to be 5 five years old” quite odd. The child is old?
sleet – gołoledź?
outdoor – as somebody already said, na zewnątrz
Ah! So it looks like the plural of ‘year’ used to exist in the form of roki, roków but has now become archaic. Interesting!
Yes, in English ages are used with the verb “be”, so the child is old. A common mistake made by Poles is to say things such as “John has 30 years” or something similar.
I have not heard the word gołoledź used before, but doesn’t that mean black ice as opposed to sleet?
Ben
Some random meanderings that may or may not be covered elsewhere here.
1.Gotyour link through the article in the Mail on Sunday
2. Empik as i am sure you know is an excellent source of literature in English, including dictionaries, Polish for foreigners an dmagazines.
3. Norman Davies is an excellent historian and a great way into understanding Poland, its history, travails, culture and people.He writes (and speaks) in Polsi and English, is married to a Pole and has a house in Krakow (and I think Wroclaw too)
4.Some of these links might also be worth adding
PKP – Polskie Koleje Panstwowe (Polish Railway Lines)
http://rozklad-pkp.pl/bin/query.exe/en?
MPK – Bus and Tram lines (linie), streets (ulice) and stops (przystanki)
http://rozklady.mpk.krakow.pl/
RDA (Regionalny Dworzec Autobusowy) Krakow RegionalBus Station
http://www.rda.krakow.pl/en/
(not the most user friendly of web sites but it does list all servces where you can drill down to whats available and they have a very annoying practice of initially listing the destination city so you need to know the possible routes your city is on before you can find your options).
You mention about the absence of words etc but there are plenty of examplesin English where the same word means very different things depending on the context.I think what you have found as I have that culture also plays an extremely important role.
Its a little like the eskimos having something like a hundred different words for snow. Equally you will find words in England like missle or ginnel in the north which you would never hear in the south unless of course you were born in those parts. In the West the words dabs is used which leaves most other Brits dumb founded.
Bare in mind also that Poland comprised many different nationalities and as an occupied part (for 140 years) on the Prussian, Russian and Austrian Empires added to jewish culture and you have an amazing mix of influences which inevitably would leave its imprint on the language.
A further factor is the anglification of Polish words into English. Obvious examples are technological ones but also words like start, weekend, taxi etc.
PS Petty point I know but its Nowa Huta not Nowa Hutta.
Keep the good work up
Regards
Ray
Poles are well aware of the ambiguity of “jestem samochodem”. Common joking response to question “Jesteś samochodem?” is “Nie, człowiekem!” followed by laughter by both. As to “dwor” and “pole” this is basically now part of joking rivalry between Krakow and Warsaw. The thing can cause heated debates, especially after a few beers, while strictly speaking both make no strict sense as there usually no “field” and no “dwor” just outside. Another thing that is also regional is “na gore” vs. “do gory”. In same places when you want to say “I’m going up” (upstairs for example) you say “Idę na górę” while in others (mostly south of Poland) people say “Idę do góry”. And, BTW, there is no exact equivalent for “upstairs”.
Brilliant comment Andy, thanks.
Andy: I wasn’t aware of the form “ide do gory”, thanks. To me it sound a bit like informal “I’m being promoted”.
As for “na pole”/”na dwor”, although their meaning is obvious to natives (“outside”), others may have hard time understanding it. I’ve learned the form “na pole” in my 20s and it came with pretty big surprise. I still can’t help picturing a farm when I hear this phrase.
All these stories aside, there are relatively few such discrepancies in Polish, perhaps because of people being rather conservative when it comes to inventing new words. That’s especially true in “serious applications” like engineering or IT where most names are either adapted or translated from German or English.
@Andrzej
I’ve learned “na dwór” in my teens, reading novels by Sienkiewicz. I was pretty sure that this is an archaism.
>Polish doesn’t have a word for “years”
In Russian it is even more strange: they have 1 god, 2 goda, 3 goda, 4 goda, but 5 let, 6 let, 7 let etc, where “god” means “a year” and “leto” means “summer” (like Polish “lato”).
In Ukrainian (which is very close to Polish) there is no such strange difference. We have singular form “rik” which is exactly the same as “rok” in Polish, and for plural we have “roky” (years). However, we have a word “stolittia” which is “sto”+”lito” = one hundred summers = a century, and we also have many other words with a root “lito” (lato). I guess this is because many centuries ago the number of years was calculated by the number of summers passed (when there were no calendar at all).
…also there is a good example of possible identity crisis in English: “I am Polish” could mean “Jestem Polakiem” (I’m a Polish national) as well as “Jestem językiem polskim” (I’m a Polish language). There is no difference between “Polak” and “polski” in English :)
Sorry not that what you say makes sense. There is a difference in English – you could say “I am a Pole” instead to make it totally clear (but it’s totally obvious from the context anyway).
My favorite oddity is the Polish word for “toe”
Oh, I’m late!
Thanks for these oddities, before I read about them on your blog, I haven’t really noticed!
I can help to explain the numbers – in Polish there used to be THREE numbers, not two, in grammae: singularis, dualis, pluralis:
jedna ręka, dwoje rąk, trzy ręce
and in calling people, voctive case:
Ty chodź! Wy chodźwa! Wy chodźcie!
But it’s so archaic that most Poles don’t even realise that they are using a petrified form.
Lata mean summers, true. The work ‘rok’ does not mean year – it is the judgment. A rok is a ceremony from 900 years ago, when the King would come in turn to each of the five capitals, and the towns between, to perform roki, that is judge people. They needn’t have gone to court. ‘Rok temu’ means literally ‘one royal progress ago’.
I don’t know a word for sleet. I know: śnieg, puch, krupa, plucha, słota, dżdż, mżawka.
Another way of saying ‘outdoors’ is wyjść na podwórze, and that might be more logical. Unless there is not backyard in the city, so it loses sense.
There is one idea about jestem samochodem. It’s not correct, so it is a simplified saying, like in English between anvil and hammer is now used as between rock and a hard place. Originally the person who could afford a car might have been likely to say: jestem zmotoryzowany. This is an example of a joke, because this word is far too long for everyday use. In later times it got abbreviated to jestem wozem.
Jack; it’s just that we don’t distinguish fingers from toes. they’re all “palec” in singular. the finger’s somehow became default, so you have to add “u nogi” if you mean the lower one :D
it’s similar with the sleet. the general expression is “padać”- to fall. then you specify: rain falls from the sky (“pada deszcz”), snow falls from the sky (“pada śnieg”), sometimes they come together and then it’s “pada deszcz ze śniegiem”. it’s strange for me as well that there is no one simple word for that, but it is an odd precipitation anyway, so who cares :D
U can say either “3 lata temu” or “3 roki temu”
second option i old-polish verion, but u can find it in lots of polish books, for example “Krzyzacy” gonna have it
I heard the “roki/rokow” frequently when I lived in the Podhale region. It’s common in the goralski dialect, though I don’t know about other regions of Poland.